managing shooting line

[juro]

Two subjects being discussed here, a) two-handed line loop mgmt and b) stripping baskets. Either can be applied to either situation, but the stripping basket is usually associated with longer lengths of line being strip retrieved (streamers, poppers, etc) wading or rocky surfaces with barnacles, etc. The mgmt of shooting line in a few large loops is a river, stream or pond application where much of the line is not pulled in thru the guides and an accomodating surface is available for the line to hang, e.g. the water.

For loops on when speycasting holding on the bottom hand reduces the amount of whipping around when making casts and is less prone to tangling up with the reel before the shoot. I prefer to use the upper hand as well but only for the single strand of line, the loops are on the butt hand.

For stripping baskets LLB has come out with an affordable basket that works very well, and the big-O has had one out for years. Most waders prefer solid baskets to prevent fill up when wading which renders the basket useless. Many boat / rock fishermen prefer holes for drainage and light weight.

A key on the rocks is visibility, a solid basket can cause tumbles or worse.

Wind is another factor, the less vulnerable to wind the less tangles you get.

Lastly comfort is important.

If you get a high quality wash tub (rubbermaid) it helps to use a razor knife to remove the turned over lip on the side nearest your belly. Feather out the cut so there are no sharp edges after you turn the corner on each side. This causes the back side to flex with our boyish figures.

The striper guys are big into the use of stripping baskets because of the techinques of stripping action into the fly and taking nearly the entire line in since the fish often hit right at your feet. Yankee ingenuity spurs many contraptions on the beach.

Basically the same problems occur when using 9 footers and DH overhead rods, the management of a long length of running line, which is usually attached to a shooting head. The problems associated with spey lines of standard length WF lines don't reach the extent of the others. Or I wouldn't think they would but in any case I'm definitely not into spey systems or casting styles. And I don't fish fresh water locations.
I use a basket with holes, basically because I dont want a basket full of water trying to drown me, and fishing off rocks is one where baskets can be a disaster when playing a rather large and fast fish, you have to dump it, and its better to not have one. There are rocks where a basket is necessary, and logically this applies to sea level reefs and beaches etc.
If you have Google Earth stick the pointer at 24 degrees 13' 02.22" S and 113 Degrees 24' 58.73" E and you have a fly fishing rock, and in that area are some of the best fly fishing rocks on the planet. Its in Western Australia north of Carnarvon.
Cheers Max

[Jamey McLeod]

I went through 2 of the rubbermaid concoctions in a year, dropped the cash on the Orvis, haven't looked back. It is solid, but I fish on a smooth cement pier, or on a small scaffold on the shoal, so seeing where my feet are isn't an issue. I have tried using it while underhanding scando heads, but it just seems to screw me up. I still can't seem to get the "loops on the fingers" thing down without shooting a big knot into my guides.

"loops on the fingers" waffor loops on the fingers.???????
Max

[Jamey McLeod]

I tried like all hell this evening to manage loops with my lower hand, no luck. I found the best way for me was 2 big loops in my mouth (I won't be doing this when I'm fishing the Grand for obvious reasons), with a bit dragging in the water. I have both hands as naturally as they always are on the rod, all I have to do is open my mouth a bit.

[Jamey McLeod]

Originally Posted by Maxg

"loops on the fingers" waffor loops on the fingers.???????
Max

Talking about shooting with a two hander. I think I need some translation to get what your saying.

[Jamey McLeod]

Originally Posted by peter-s-c

Stick with trying to make the little finger of the bottom hand do the job -- very awkward at first but it becomes second nature pretty quick.

Your screaming Marquis story put a smile on my face -- nothing beats that sound.

We are just on the cusp of all of our fall fun here in Western MI, it was a very good feeling, I haven't had the "big take" in a few months.

I am only using my thumb, fore finger, and a bit of my middle finger to grip the lower cork. I tried many different positions, but it always seemed to send a knot into the guides. I was using the concoction I mentioned in the other post and shooting 30ft (or so)of line. Another problem I ran into was the running always wanted to go on the wrong side of the reel, know what I mean? It really diminished the "shootability" of the line.

[t_richerzhagen]

I second Peter, keep trying the hands. Also the bottom hand doesn't have to let go completely, but can guide the line.

[Lohi]

With all due respect, 30 ft of running line is IMHO quite manageable from the hands, and in normal 2-hand fishing situation, on a normal river conditions, no mouth or basket is really needed. Usually, the tangles become into play to the squeare power of the line length to be shot, but in my opinion, the fulcrum point is about 15-20 m or 50-66 ft or so of running line. Obviously, when the conditions are such, that the line is about to tangle to the shoreline, full of rocks or such, the story is different. But at least here those conditions are extremely rare, into such extent, that I have never seen a 2-hander with a basket...

[hisgarness]

I also prefer longer heads and less loops. Preferably three loops max. The challenge is to snug up the line between the casting pinch point and the bottom hand loops. If I don't take up that slack, the line occaisionally wraps around my rod butt and/or reel. No doubt a casting flaw, but so far no videos and precious little instruction, so I struggle along.

[Jay Beckstead]

Originally Posted by Maxg

If you are on a flat platform, like grass, river bank, rock etc use a panel of prawn net, or any one inch light net. You can fit elastic bands and hooks to the edges to straighten it out, and use that to handle your running line. If you are wading, use a basket, it will hold quite a bit of running line.
If you are wanderuing around the basket is fine, but keep it in control where ever you are.
I use heads and a lot of running line, anything up to 120 feet of "stuffed" line, like 30lb GsP, Bionic Braid, inside 20lb Gudebrod braided mono it isd about 0.02" in diameter, thinner than most manufactured lines, has no stretch, no knots and shoots like Davey Crockett.
Max

Max,

I for one am quite curious about how one would stuff 120 feet of line with another line. Inching it along like putting a dacron loop on the tip of a line sounds pretty time consuming. The only other idea I had was running a wire up the center & snaking the 2nd line into it. That also sounds like a lot of work.

If this is the ultimate running line, I would love to try it. Could you please explain how to stuff a line.

Jay

[MJC]

That line stuffing can be done as Max suggest. It takes a while but I thought the results were good. He has much info on Blanton's board.

[Jamey McLeod]

I'm starting to come along with the little finger thing. I'm nailing about 3/5, the others just shoot knots into the guides. Practice makes perfect I guess.

[flydology]

Originally Posted by KerryS

Interesting. I do just the opposite. First one is the longest then get shorter. I go by number of strips. 5 strips hold loop, 4 strips hold loop, 3 strips etc.

I second this. 5 strips - loop, 4 strips - loop. The last loop is modified so that my running line is just 1' from the rod tip.

Bottom hand, no fingers seperating loops.

"Stuffing",....Actually its done with a 6 inch doll needle. You just put the GsP, I use 30lb Bionic Braid which breaks at 42lb and thread it through the eye of the needle. Pull it through about 6 feet, worst case sceanario is the gsp coming out of the needle.
Then you just keep on feeding that needle up the 20lb Gudebrod until it comes out the end.
I started this thing because of my experience fishing fly off rocks with dacron backing lines way back. The water drag was immense and broke tippets, so when GsP arrived I did some research on it, got in touch with the inventors DSM HPF in Holland, patent holders, its called Dyneema, Spectra is made in the USA under license by Allied Signal owned by Honeywell. There are some funny stories about GsP, mostly furfies. Spectra is made ONLY in the USA, and Dyneema is made only by Toyobo Co in Japan. DSM no longer make GsP. Spectra is braided in the USA, Dyneema is braided elsewhere. All provided by Toyobo who actually send it to Holland and it's redirected from there. funny set up.
Anyway DSM fed me a lot of information about the stuff, how its made, and its problems like modulus, rather high, its slippery thin strong and it hates sharp edges, and does slip layers on reels.
So I did some testing on knots and splices, knot testing should be done at load rates of around 100mm per minute, IGFA testers are to fast with load application to handle stretch figures of 3%, and came up with the universal GsP connection to anything, the coaxial loop, from which came the integrated backing/running line and then stuffed running line, all of which iare just elongated coaxial loops. mInd you I did this for me, I wasn't interested in anyone else and their knot problems. I wanted a very effecient fly system that matched the high modulus fast response graphite rods. And of course low water drag. Not many people liked it, still don't for that matter. Its the time element, like 5 hours stuffing.
Anyway its about 0.02" in diameter, 42lb b/s and rather nice as a running line.
Not quite as far casting as Amnesia but beats the hell out of a lot of other thicker lines. These days I'm playing with 80lb Power Pro, Spectra Hollow GsP braid stuffed with 6lb monofilament. Thats magic, or the line I've done 120lb Power Pro with 8lb mono is magic. Needs a good LMD, line management devise to keep it off the ground, and you need a good glove, recommended Spectra butchers glove. Very thin, very slippery goes into next month, but will remove fingers if caught up in a fast running line.
I'm off to bed, its 11.22pm. Cheers MaxG