Switch rod for pike and musky

[ramcatt]

Originally Posted by switchrod99

Thanks much ramcatt.
..If anything just to see the size of bugs a 6 wt spey will cast would be great. ..

clarify... its the 12'6 456 highlander
it will handle most any fly that i wnat (i tie 35mm waddington shanks mostly)

imo... 12'6 is too big for PA
i like my 10'6 with 18' skagit head
the 12'6 with 22' head and 10' tip puts you at ~50' - feet to fly with the head at the tip top
BUT,.. thats w ahole nother convo

the MCO guys fish the Beulah surfs
with more 2hand overhead casts or single overhead

The beulah surfs are bad ass rods... the 13/15wt will hurt your feelings

[PGK]

I've been trying to force myself to use my switches for pike but I have to be honest with myself. A singlehander in 990-4 configuration is the best all around stick for pike fishing. I reach for it nearly all the time. The only time I find myself using my z7110 is when I want to really get down and use a heavy sinktip with a big fly. Any switch rod under a 7wt rating, and to be honest the z7110 is too noodley, is going to be much too soft to throw the big flies with much success. Anything over that designation is capable of overpowering even a 15lb jack in less time than it takes to let out a whizz. 990-4. It's just better.

[willi]

The one problem I have with the of "big" Muskie flies in the 8"-10" + range is besides the oversized rods needed (fish fighting versus fly size cast) is most recipe's are wads of fur,feathers and flash ~ in clear water, retrieved they look like wads of rather than also.
Muskie are aggressive but, also well pressured, long lived - caught and released and not the same aggressive as Northerns........add in clear water or shallow fishing depths and......

This HUGE fly thing comes from HUGE plug trollers whom speed troll, deep suspended, large Muskies........the same also tend to be fat and lazy or Captain/Guides with clients whom sit back and drink a beer.

American's (me included) tend to jump on anything "bigger,bad'er,tougher" is 'better"........not always the case nor need imo flyfishing. The old school local Muskie guru's on my local,very well known for Muskie lake here whom gear fish for them daily, all season used/ still use - Pikie Minnows, Brooks Reefers and Muskie Bucktail Spinners in 5" - 7" range the most casting or trolling a outer weed line. They go BIG if speed trolling deep/suspended summer heat only..........not exactly "fly water".

I am using a 10' x 8wt switch with 365 grains x 30' most, up to 400 grains if I want. Butt deep in water, having to use a strip basket rather than lay nice loops out, it throws 2/0 x 6" flies with bushy deer belly spun heads/collars 75'-80' with a hard ---- want more ----snap at the end, pretty easy, cast after cast.........and thats plenty. Can get more but, it takes run line attention / PM . Able to strip the head in to about 10' of line, roll out to run line, take back and shoot or bring up/out, head,false cast and shoot -------to dry off my top water running bug if/when wanted.

This with a Rio Scandi Short #6 head reversed plus 10' = 365 grain..............haven't even dialed in for specific ideal Muskie shore line head yet nor, a deep weed line head yet for the new T & T SW 1008 rod yet.........just worked with some stuff I had........but, will say this rod for it's short length is incredibly, nicely non grain specific. Also, throws a approx. 225 grain SA GPX Sharkskin about 105' too ........in the lawn.......to 115'-120'....365-400 g..shooting head in the lawn/two hand over head/easy handling non mono shoot line...........80' spey casts, butt deep......real tips and flys..........beyond the above/any cast style it becomes ....."how much do you want to mess with shooting line for extra distance.......versus fish".......I don't need further at the cost of more shoot line attention/maint.

[kweetech]

Originally Posted by willi

The one problem I have with the of "big" Muskie flies in the 8"-10" + range is besides the oversized rods needed (fish fighting versus fly size cast) is most recipe's are wads of fur,feathers and flash ~ in clear water, retrieved they look like wads of rather than also.
Muskie are aggressive but, also well pressured, long lived - caught and released and not the same aggressive as Northerns........add in clear water or shallow fishing depths and......

This HUGE fly thing comes from HUGE plug trollers whom speed troll, deep suspended, large Muskies........the same also tend to be fat and lazy or Captain/Guides with clients whom sit back and drink a beer.

American's (me included) tend to jump on anything "bigger,bad'er,tougher" is 'better"........not always the case nor need imo flyfishing. The old school local Muskie guru's on my local,very well known for Muskie lake here whom gear fish for them daily, all season used/ still use - Pikie Minnows, Brooks Reefers and Muskie Bucktail Spinners in 5" - 7" range the most casting or trolling a outer weed line. They go BIG if speed trolling deep/suspended summer heat only..........not exactly "fly water".

I know in the midwest..the gear trend is towards bigger baits..like the double cowgirls, bulldawgs, medussas, big jakes..etc. Smaller stuff catches fish too of course...but those big fish like big food. Heck...I've caught tons more big bass than muskies this year...on 8-10" flies. I think there is a size limit though for flies...where efficiency drops off so much...you take such a beating and can't fish as long and as hard. Throwing biiiig flies isn't for the fat and lazy
The problem with a lot of musky flies I see, is they are tied with too much bulk. I'm hope to start tying some flies here soon (when my days are 27 hours long )...and think of the same principles used in intruders etc....maximum size with minimum bulk. Pitching huge deer hair head flies is a pain...but you want something that really moves in the water, pushes water (sound) and gives off a great action when paused. The big EP flies aren't as bulky..but just aren't that great IMO.
INteresting side note...I went out with a really good musky gear guy the other day..I had about twice as much action as he did..fishing his favorite water...

[willi]

hey Kweetech,
Thanks - I like hearing,reading, seeing what others are using. A lot depends on river,lake resevoir ---- from boat, wade, etc.

My perspective is from not living to hunt Muskie/Pike w) a fly rod like some but, rather going through, rotational, 3-5 year kicks , over years pursuing.

I have owned several power boats and yaks for fishing but, just wade these days, unless someone w) a boat offers. If I was fishing a 10' deep weed line wall, I would want a 400 grain full sink x 30' head and imo that requires the bigger 9-10 wt rods to extract, roll up, all day long.
Wading I am 99% floating line. In a local small river choked with Pike a Skagit head and modest T Tip length of 5' at the most.
When wading I do need a bit more rod length hence the current 10' two hander versus my former 9 1/2' s. As expected the two hand over head delivery, long hours, is MUCH more comfortable than the single hand, double haul.

Most modern 8,9 & 10wts imo are one up in weight class reality than a couple decades ago or at least 1/2 up. Switches, are definately up a bit. My T & T x 10' 8wt switch is likely in the 8.5 line weight class. The line carrys the fly and for shooting heads, over head, wading butt deep, it handles 365 - 405 grains well, which is definately pushing near 909 s.h. rod status.

Besides the small to large rivers, hear are a couple pics of typical wade situations for me, taken recent. This is a lake but, I do the same in a reservoir.

Basically I look for - Points, Drop Offs,Creek Mouths, Weeds combinations. Evening is definitely better than morning. This a lake from a couple days ago. Muskie only here. This spot has - a point, weeds, small trib and mild drop off.



Typical shore line wade set up -



I find it MUCH easier to catch Northerns than Muskie.

Tie a lot of stuff, more than I need. My go to flies though are 2/0 from 5" - 7" . I like spun hair but, if "one only" I would take a simple foam cylinder Pop's Banger. It chugs/bangs/pops water even in a good chop. On top, I like a lot of commotion.
For subsurface I would take the 2/0, Flash Tail, Deceiver to Half & Half platform given "one". But, use a Bent Back 2/0 w) special attention given to the weedless properties for the thickest weeds. Deceivers w) weed guards slither through weeds pretty well. They are a great casting fly. With a loop knot they swim well.
This one below I tied last night. It's 7" via the flash tail on a 2/0. I add a buck tail collar at the bend to support and tie the herl over wing, over buck tail, longer, Scandi style for added movement rather than shorter. Other than that it's standard , bulked up Muskie/Pike Deceiver.
It's not the most durable, despite added super glue etc. and what I hate, because of the time involved tying them is when smaller Pike rip them up. So, I tend to save the nicer ones for Muskie/big Pike areas and lesser thanks where I think hammer handles may be.
The other thing I like about Deceivers around weeds of this size is they are a great, large Walleye fly and I like Walleye.

This one (color scheme) and a brown/tan/gold color scheme are my "go to" colors for all Muskie/Pike/Walleye be it Deceiver or Half & Half. If I was out on a 10' deep weed line, looking for big Muskie, I would likely go up in size to 3/0-4/0 and 8"-10" and a bigger rod............but, thats a "b!tch" with full sinker for all day blind cast fishing.




Banger -


IMO- Shoreline wade fishing toothy's, non spring spawn is tough and a bit different game. I enjoy it from years ago throwing Rapala's for Walleye and catching Muskie's along with on J 11's. I prefer the top water banging given a choice as I luv seeing, anticipate watching for, the crockidile profile and V wake approach of Muskie in particular.......but, you run out of room strip's wading and all I can do is kick it to the side hard, try to walk the dog a bit, for that last minute , nearly out of line, follow strike.......which then I mostly miss on Muskie. Maybe I need a larger gap hook for ????
FWIW - I have waded both evenings and mornings for a lot of years on/off and evenings are 4x more productive as the toothiest come in on the feed.

I believe that there is something about wading lakes for Walleye, Muskie,Pike in the evenings that only those whom grow up fishing the Great Lakes, Midwest & Canada regions really have a appreciation for and much of it stems from wading,casting Rapala's as the sun goes down in younger days.
They say "you return to ways of youth" . Now 51 years old, I was a young teenager , wading casting Rapala's and did such into my early 20's when the power boat $$$$ phase kicked in for fishing. Back then my fly roy endeavers were limited to Trout in little creeks followed by Steelhead.
For some deep seeded reason, likely stemming from youth I get the urge now and again to, wade the lake (3 miles away - same one as youth) evenings. My Rapala's replaced w) Deceivers and top water.
Like back then, there are still a crew of local anglers whom wade often. Most are gray haired like me now. Most them still throw Rapala's for Walleye and catch some Muskie along the way along w) big Smallies now and then. I enjoy talking to them about such over a cup of coffee.

Of the 5 power boats and 5 kayaks I have owned rigged for fishing the one I should have kept was the simple 14' w) 10 HP Johnson, alum. V hull "Pike" boat......as we used to call them.........quite the contrast from modern fishing boats.

I have never fully got into the Muskie casting w) gear, plugs and big spinner blade buck tails from boats. I may some day in my latter years of retirement do just that and tackle craft tie up my own muskie,bladed Bucktails and get a St.Croix Muskie rod, 14'-16' "Pike" boat and a basic outboard for outer weed line casting.
For now, I am content going in "spurts" pursuing Toothy's wet wading as I did in youth to switching up flies (larger) in certain spots while swinging rivers with a two hander.
As suspected the two hander for over head shore line made a huge difference on my worn/injured right shoulder. I cast several hours yesterday with out waffling down ibuprofen when I returned home.

I like hearing,reading,talking about Muskie/Pike/Walleye locally or the net. As noted I am far from a hard core fly rod, guide vet for such. In reality just revisiting my youth at times with different gear.
i think if you live very close to wade access areas, pick the right points, evenings, go out for a few hours at a time, couple times a week, it's worth it.......especially if it's in your blood as a kid but, I would not drive a distance for with out a boat. Lakes and res's with Northerns have always been considerably more productive for me than Muskie only waters........I guess thats what makes Muskie special For me, I really don't care for Northerns unless they are over 30" and with Bellies. I much prefer a nice big Walleye. The Walleye are what keep me casting the big Walleye/smallish Muskie size flies that are likely ideal for Northerns. I like the Northerns take on top and thats about it, unless fatty's.


Modern gear does make shore line Muskie/Pike Walleye easier , more enjoyable than ever before. I have never seen,felt,used one but, something tells me the Meiser 9'9" er's are a heck of a all around rod for such. My T & T 10' two hander seems to be as well. I have cast the Beulah Surf series two handers and liked them. Seems to me a Echo SR may be the best value rods for such intended (surf to spey).

Thats my Sunday cup of coffee short story. I hope you enjoyed, I suspect the majority here looking in are more a like than different and can relate.

I will be on my local lake this evening, wet wading, casting the flies above as the sun goes down

Not a real writer so please except the non edit, grammar errors, small town diner stool coffee format, thanks.

Enjoy the outdoors.........
Bill

[kweetech]

got to cast the Meiser 9'9" 7/8 switch...using about a ~15' 500gr shooting head..and a smaller 8" fly.
LOL...this thing just chucks it out there. Need to work on getting the line out there for the initial load (from stripping into the leader), and need a better way to handle all the running line in the boat.
Pretty cool tool for big water/flies though. WOuld like to try with a sinking head...but not sure what I can pull together before its gotta go back to Bob.

Will get some use this week in the northwoods....if I get on some bigger water.